Be Well> Do Well> Stay Awhile: An evidence-informed framework to build a positive work culture led by Dan Comer

Human services organizations are facing unprecedented burnout, turnover, and recruitment challenges. The Kempe Center has developed "Be Well> Do Well> Stay Awhile," an evidence-informed framework to support workforce resilience. This framework targets three key drivers: leadership, workplace culture, and five simple resilience behaviors for staff. In addition, there are five simple behaviors individual staff can practice to support their resilience. Join us monthly for this series, as we explore each aspect of this program throughout the year.

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00:00:00:0 - 00:00:19:6
Unknown
You're listening to Radio Kempe. We value the sense of community that connects people and helps them find ways to move forward. Join us on our journey to prevent child abuse and neglect.

00:00:20:5 - 00:00:43:3
Unknown
Welcome and welcome back. This is Radio Kemp and Kendall Marlow with the Kemp Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect. Thank you for joining us today. If you're new to Radio Kemp's work in 2024 know that we're on a journey this year with you to discover new voices and learn new things. We're open to what we find.

00:00:43:4 - 00:01:11:4
Unknown
And thank you for traveling with us. This episode is something special as it's the first conversation in a series of conversations on the challenge of supporting and retaining some people critical to child welfare. Our workers, our workforce, the folks who will actually be out there knocking on a family's door. Every conference and stakeholder meeting we have inevitably confronts the disengagement and chronic turnover in our field.

00:01:11:5 - 00:01:40:9
Unknown
Are we sentenced to a never ending cycle of moral injury and burnout? Is there anything we can do about this? And is there any evidence that anything actually works to help our workers thrive so that they can help families thrive? Something's afoot. And if you subscribe to the civil rights icon John Lewis's notion of making this a better world by making some good trouble, we're about to meet a troublemaker.

00:01:41:0 - 00:02:08:5
Unknown
Dan Kolber, for being here with us both today and for this series of conversations. Glad to be here, Kendall. And thank you for acknowledging my troublemaking skills, it seems. Yeah, it seems inherent. Jim. You're on the faculty of Kemp Center. You have decades of experience in training, coaching, consulting and leading the child welfare workforce. You've done engagements to do that all across the country.

00:02:08:6 - 00:02:42:3
Unknown
But something must have happened to start you on the path you're now traveling. There's something out there that you're leading and growing to meet this challenge of workforce resiliency and retention. Who were you? Where were you and what happened to send you with such passion on this mission? Yeah, and I am passionate about it. I've been doing this work for 40 years and I don't know if you should be doing this work for 40 years.

00:02:42:3 - 00:03:10:6
Unknown
That feels like a long, long time. And because it is down. Because it is all right. Around five years ago, I was burnt to a crisp. You know, the system is hard. A system has problems. I loved where I worked and I loved my job. But I really felt like, am I really making a difference? I had a I did a lot of work.

00:03:10:6 - 00:03:36:6
Unknown
I do a lot of work around coaching and with individuals and teams. And that's really, really hard work. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And it as I like most people, I think as you look at the system and the changes that are happening or not happening, I just I just got to a place of hopelessness and I realized, wait, I can't do my job if I'm in this space.

00:03:36:8 - 00:04:14:8
Unknown
I, I don't think anybody can. And I wanted to stay here. I wanted to keep doing the work. And so I started I looked for everything. I did a lot of research. There's a lot of things going on right at that point with positive psychology. And I just I just got into the research so much. And then I realized and I started practicing things that that the research showed made a difference in how resilient you are, how hopeful you are, how you view, you know, the world and the work that you do.

00:04:14:9 - 00:04:38:3
Unknown
And it made a huge difference for me. And then, of course, in my work on a day to day basis, I'm finding, you know, you find all kinds of people that are burned out. It's almost a, you know, child welfare. And I know other fields, too, like medicine or whatever. Also, it's it feels like it's made to to burn people out.

00:04:38:3 - 00:05:00:5
Unknown
It's, you know, it's a tough, tough, tough job, tough system. We don't have everything figured out. And so there's a lot of things that lead to burnout. And so I realized, well, I could take what I was learning, practicing and benefiting from and bring it to this field. So, you know, structurally. What did you learn when you looked into all that?

00:05:00:6 - 00:05:44:7
Unknown
That it's not rocket science, to be honest. There are there's you know, we have to research everything nowadays. Everything is researched. And there are some things that all I would be I would be honest with you and say, yes, please do If you've been up to this point. Yeah, let us know. I'll be honest with you, some of the I want to be talking about in in our intervention, we talk about five resilient practices, things that people can do that are proven to make a difference in how they respond to things, how optimistic they are, how resilient they are, how it affects retention, all those kind of things.

00:05:44:7 - 00:06:10:2
Unknown
And some of those and I'll talk about why we picked these particular five. I mean, there's 100 million things you could probably do to to help you helping be more resilient. But there is these five that for me, some of them sounded pretty fluffy, pretty fluffy. And in talking to people about them, I was I was saying, I don't know.

00:06:10:2 - 00:06:43:1
Unknown
That just sounds too simple to whatever blindness guy. You know, acts of kindness might be an example. And as you dig into the research, I don't know. I was blown away that the research has been done for many years. You know, positive psychology has been around probably 30, 40, 50 years now. And the research is good. And these simple, small things make a difference.

00:06:43:2 - 00:07:06:6
Unknown
If you do them enough. And when I talk to organizations or when I talk to individuals, people who are stressed, I mean, in this job pretty constantly, people are stressed. I mean, we can talk about the pandemic if we must. But I think it's always been it's always been that way. Our field is it didn't become prone to turnover because of the pandemic.

00:07:06:6 - 00:07:32:8
Unknown
It's always been that way. And so in a stressful environment, when things are up in the air, when there's change after change after change, which is that's our field, that the last thing you want to do is to try to ask somebody to do some complicated big changes in their life in order to be able to do their job and to be able to stay healthy, why they did their job.

00:07:32:9 - 00:08:09:0
Unknown
And I would say luckily, there's very simple, easy to practice things that if you do it consistently, make a huge difference. You're talking about individuals, but you're also talking about organized nations and this intervention, as you're calling it, that you've worked on, seems to be operating at multiple levels. I'm struck by and maybe I just, you know, while trying to find the baseball game in the afternoon, I watched too many of those daytime TV shows.

00:08:09:1 - 00:08:34:9
Unknown
But the American self-help movement has always been very much about transforming the individual. So if I'm a leader, Dan, I might think if only my people can get their minds right and get their hearts right and go off and do what they need to do as an individual, then they come to work prepared. If I've got the policies lined up in the resources, we should all be good.

00:08:35:0 - 00:08:54:7
Unknown
Does this start with the individual? Does this end with the individual or is there something more? You're describing, I think how it has typically been looked at. so you're very stressed or you're overworked or you're over? Well, I'm very burnt out. Take a day off. Want to take a day off now? Go ahead. Take a take a bubble bath.

00:08:54:7 - 00:09:27:3
Unknown
I suggested at many resiliency sessions. Yes. And okay, take a day off and maybe you'll feel a little bit better that day. And you if you go back into the same culture, the same environment, the same policies that don't support workers to the degree that they need support, you, it doesn't help anything. And so it's we really just discover it's a really a three pronged approach.

00:09:27:3 - 00:09:54:6
Unknown
There's three drivers to to if you really want an organization that supports resilience, that leads to retention. Yeah, there's things that an individual person can do and an individual worker can do and should do, and many of them do and many of them don't because the job is so busy, so time consuming. Many of them don't. And so, yeah, that's a piece of it.

00:09:54:7 - 00:10:23:9
Unknown
But then there's two other huge pieces to it. One is what is the culture in that organization? You know, I come across I talk to lots and lots of workers who say, Yeah, in our organization, when you get looked at, when you say, I need some time off or I want to take a day off, because, you know, you know, there's some internal feelings of putting some things on my colleagues that, you know, if I take off, I'm putting extra things on them.

00:10:24:0 - 00:10:47:8
Unknown
But then also supervisors say, go take a day off. And these supervisors haven't taken a day off in six months. So there's a message that has to be part of the culture. And most people, I think, know this, especially in child welfare. But I think it's true in most every field culture is determined really at the supervisor level to the biggest degree.

00:10:47:9 - 00:11:12:3
Unknown
They're the keepers of the culture, how things are done, what we talk about, what we you know, what we reinforce, what we don't, what we punish. And so that second driver, if you will, of the intervention is really at the supervisor level and how that how powerful of an influence they have over the culture. And then the third driver, of course, has to be leadership.

00:11:12:4 - 00:11:43:4
Unknown
I mean, other two pieces can be in play and you're still not going to be as successful as you want to be or need to be if you don't have leadership on board. Leadership having a vision for being an organization that supports resilience, that, you know, there are a lot of organizations out there that they have not just in child welfare, but in corporate world and everywhere where what they realize is, you know, there really is a shortage of workers and lots of reasons for that.

00:11:43:4 - 00:12:06:0
Unknown
And we have to be a place that people want to work and that that really comes comes an awful lot of a big piece of that comes from leadership. And the supervisor level. You have to create a culture that people want to show up for. You know, I'm a news junkie and so I've always read the business pages, too.

00:12:06:0 - 00:12:33:5
Unknown
I can't tell you how many articles I've read that have said the most important factor in in retention in any field is the worker's relationship with their immediate supervisor and think that's right, the two of them can survive a hurricane. And if that's wrong, the best paid job with the nicest desk and comfiest chair ain't going to work.

00:12:33:6 - 00:13:10:1
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I have heard that saying over and over again, you know, people leave their supervisor, they don't leave their job. And I've coached quite a few workers who have left their supervisor. Again, they're the they're the creator or of the culture to a large degree, the supervisor. And if if it's not a culture that people can thrive in, not just survive, but thrive in, it's too damn hard of a job and they're going to go somewhere else where they feel like they can be supported, where they feel like they can be heard.

00:13:10:1 - 00:13:46:5
Unknown
All of those kind of things. So this intervention you've been working on is is it's not an idea. It's something that you've been out there developing and delivering and making happen. You're talking about it being driven both at, you know, the individual level, the culture level, the leadership level. What is this thing? What is this thing? Yeah, So there's we put it together and it's it's funny, we used to just provide training around these five practices and how they can, you know, both how you can put them into practice in your own life.

00:13:46:5 - 00:14:15:9
Unknown
But also what's unique about these five practices, they also can happen and should happen at work in an easy, you know, an easy way where it just fits into the the the day of work and, you know, a good example of one of the practices is exercise, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Exercise is good for you, it's good for your resilience, it's good for your wellbeing, it's yeah, and a lot of people do it and some people don't.

00:14:16:0 - 00:14:40:3
Unknown
And what's cool about the at least the latest research on exercise is, you know, and I, I was always an athlete and always paid attention to exercise. And, you know, it used to be they, you know, they did the research and I said, all right, if you exercised hard for, you know, 90 minutes, three, four times a week, boom, you've got the benefits of exercise.

00:14:40:3 - 00:15:03:5
Unknown
Well, what what research shows now is, yeah, do that if you have time for it. Energy, for desire for it. Yes. Do that. And the benefits of exercise can be found in 15 minutes a day. If you move around for 15 minutes a day, you will get that benefit. And so it's not it doesn't have to be rocket science.

00:15:03:5 - 00:15:29:5
Unknown
And so for me, that is probably the number one practice that I mentioned. If I only have one minute with somebody. What I will say is you're doing supervision with everybody on your team, you know, once a week or whatever it is that should be walking supervision each and every time. But for for that movement piece. But also, your brain works better when you're walking.

00:15:29:6 - 00:15:49:5
Unknown
So there's just no reason. So that's what I mean by the ease of this that that okay, how am I going to do exercise at work? Well, you know, some organizations have smart, beautiful gyms. There's a beautiful place in the state that I that I work in that has a pub, one of the nicest gyms I've ever seen.

00:15:49:5 - 00:16:17:1
Unknown
And people love it. And they have some of the highest turnover, if not the highest turnover in the state. So it's not having that when people are working till 7:00 at night and they need to feel like they don't have time to go to that gym. But if you already you've already got your 15 minutes and because you did 15 minutes of walking supervision and or you took the steps instead of the elevator, and those are the kind of simple things we're talking about with these practices.

00:16:17:2 - 00:16:48:0
Unknown
So there's five practices, exercise being one of them, and you're helping people understand those, integrate those into it sounds like their daily lives. This is not just once in a six months we do a retreat kind of thing. Yeah, that's that's been shown that people have retreats. And as far as turnover and retention and resilience, boy, that lasts for about a day, maybe a day and a half.

00:16:48:0 - 00:17:23:6
Unknown
The energy, the the pride, the whatever, whatever that comes from that retreat. But what's cool about these five practices are that they're simple enough that you can do them every single day. And then what you're talking about with all of these practices are that whole changing the brain, you know, that whole idea of plasticity of the brain where you can really change the dynamic, you know, how the brain is structured by doing something over and over again, and then you create a new pathway.

00:17:23:7 - 00:17:52:4
Unknown
And I mean, it's just the example of you do something often enough, it becomes automatic. And so that's what we're talking about with these practices. So if I'm in an organization and I'm I'm working with you on all this, what is this thing called that you do? thank you for that. I'm so thank you for that. So been playing around with the name, still willing to play around with it, but I'm pretty excited where we are right now with it.

00:17:52:6 - 00:18:12:9
Unknown
So what we call this is be well, do well stay a while. I'm on this. I'm a simple man can do it, you know, keep it simple, keep it. And three people can remember three things. Again, there you go. But. But let me tell you what it means. So be well. Do well. Stay a while. So be well.

00:18:13:0 - 00:18:38:4
Unknown
If you practice some behaviors that are known to to build resilience and support resilience and you have a good supervisor, then you're going to have a good level well-being and and resilience, right? There should be, well, peace. And if you're doing well, if you have some well, some level of well-being, you're more able and willing to do good work.

00:18:38:4 - 00:19:07:0
Unknown
You're able to be more creative, more resourceful, more energetic, more everything. You're able to do a better work and better job at work. And so being well helps us to do good work. That's the do well peace. And then you all know this, I know this, everyone knows this, it if you have some level of wellness and some level of resilience and you're doing good work, you're much more likely to stick around for a while.

00:19:07:1 - 00:19:38:1
Unknown
And that's I mean, that's what I call retention sticking around and so be well, do well stay a while. And I think it's it says what it is. And I think it's I don't know if it sound simple. It probably does sound simple. And I'd say that is because it is simple. The intervention is simple. We're talking about simple things, but not easy things, but not things as it always is, it seems.

00:19:38:1 - 00:20:05:1
Unknown
So is there evidence behind this? You know, I'm already making fun of the American self-help movement. And, you know, we live in a world of pop psychology where someone comes on a daytime TV show and within one hour they sit down with some troubled individual, About 35, 40 minutes in, the individual starts to have an epiphany. And then within an hour, it's all good.

00:20:05:2 - 00:20:29:4
Unknown
And, you know, even if you haven't studied social science research, I think everybody's a little bit skeptical of can, you know, does all this stuff actually have a lasting effect? So put you on the spot then. It's really research that backs this stuff up. There is there's a ton of it out there. Kind of there's a ton of it out there.

00:20:29:5 - 00:20:54:3
Unknown
And again, when we looked for, okay, what were we going to recommend? What were we going to suggest? I mean, you know, seriously, there's 100 things you can do to to help your resilience, help you perform better at work. Sleep, beautiful example. Good research on what that does. So we could have picked sleep, but what we came up with was three criteria that we were looking for.

00:20:54:4 - 00:21:14:7
Unknown
One is there had to be evidence that support. I mean, we just wouldn't know what to pay attention to. It's just like you were saying, no one would pay attention to us if we didn't if you if we suggested practices that had no support. And so they had they had to have that that impact behind them. They had to be proven practices that that will make a difference.

00:21:14:7 - 00:21:38:8
Unknown
Proven to make a difference. They had to be simple. They had to be as simple as possible. And again, I can't reiterate that enough. If everybody has too much on their plate, can we? You know, I know everyone does. And to ask somebody with too much on their plate to do something else on top of what they're doing, people are not going to do it.

00:21:38:9 - 00:21:57:3
Unknown
So it's not you know, if they're doing it already, if they're exercising already, let's say, then that's great. But somebody else that really could benefit from some exercise, some movement, even even just at 50 minutes a day, they're not you can't suggest that to them because they're not going to do it when they're already saying, I can't barely make it through the day.

00:21:57:3 - 00:22:17:2
Unknown
And when I go home, I go to sleep. I can't I have no energy for anything else. So there has to be it had to be easy. And then the third and the third thing was if we could do it and not just in your home, you know, your home life, your your personal life, but also something that could be could be supported at the in the work setting.

00:22:17:3 - 00:22:40:9
Unknown
It just makes it it does a couple of things. Number one, if you're real busy, maybe you get your exercise done during the day by, you know, parking farther away in the parking lot. And you normally do as an example. So if you can get it done during the day, when you get home from this very stressful job, then you don't have to add that to what you already have to do at home.

00:22:41:0 - 00:22:54:0
Unknown
So easy, impactful, proven and able to do them at work. That was our criteria. So, Mr. Research Scientist, you've got numbers, you've got numbers to back any of this up.

00:22:54:0 - 00:23:03:1
Unknown
I think I mean, people pay attention, especially leadership, I think pays attention to, you know, how can I keep people what what makes sense to keep people?

00:23:03:2 - 00:23:34:0
Unknown
And there's some really, really good studies out there. Gallup does this large, large survey every year of work forces around the world, actually, not just the country, huge, huge sample size and not just child welfare, but all kinds of businesses and all kinds of businesses and industries. And then there's an annual survey called The Great Place to Work Survey, and they do some fabulous research around places where people want to work and why.

00:23:34:1 - 00:24:00:7
Unknown
And in some of these, I think people are going to take away different things from the what I want to tell you, but I'm actually asking you what you take away from them. So people hear about this, you know, it takes more than a 20% pay raise to convince employees to leave a job where they feel engaged. You got to pay me a whole lot more before I'm leaving this place where I'm engaged and into it.

00:24:00:7 - 00:24:31:4
Unknown
I like it. I feel supported. I want to be here. And if they don't feel engaged, it doesn't matter what you pay them. And so this is interesting to me because my wife is a manager in child welfare at I'm sorry, in mental health, and she was she has been working at the same organization for 25 years. And it's you know, it has all the stresses and all the changes that, you know, go on in child welfare and maybe even worse.

00:24:31:4 - 00:24:57:5
Unknown
I mean, that lack of resources, all that kind of thing. And her organization, she was managing people. And there, you know, tremendous stress just in doing that and tremendous stress on the employees from all the cases and lack of resources and what have you. And the organization at that point decided to change the entire system. Everything change everything.

00:24:57:5 - 00:25:21:8
Unknown
And this is right immediately after the pandemic and hurt my wife, all of them. I mean, you can imagine how many people said, wow, all right, now, really right now. And they didn't. But they you know, now, I mean, they made the decision they're going to go through with it. And so people were quitting right and left. They were losing people every day.

00:25:21:9 - 00:25:54:6
Unknown
People were crying. My wife's that, you know, staff meetings every time it was horrible. And so their initial solution and I'm going to say probably the only solution they've come up with so far is was to throw money at people. They were throwing money at people. And I was funny, too, and and interesting, too, to be through it with my wife or go through it with my wife because, you know, the first time you know, the first time you get a $10,000 raise, $15,000 raise, you go, hey, hey, hey, hey, me?

00:25:54:7 - 00:26:23:3
Unknown
Yeah, for dinner? Yeah, Like this, this, this changes everything. And yeah, it didn't it? You know, you feel like, they recognize how hard I'm working, but they're not changing anything. They're not looking at what else we can do. How can we, you know, the all the policies, all the things that go along with being a really supportive organization they didn't have and they just threw money at people.

00:26:23:3 - 00:26:49:9
Unknown
And I'll tell you, my wife left after being there for 25 years because the money made no difference. So that's one thing. I mean, you know, you hear about people leaving the county to go to another county because they pay a little bit more. That's not the solution, according to the research. Here's the things that keep people feeling able to be themselves makes an employee twice as likely to stay.

00:26:50:0 - 00:27:33:4
Unknown
If I can just show up and be me. Yeah. And that's accepted. That's, you know, that's understood. I'm twice as likely to stay psychologically safe work environment. That's maybe the biggest trend right now and it's actually worthwhile as a trend. It's everything psychological safety is is the new trust you have to have. It's foundational if you are experiencing a psychologically safe work environment, you are three times as likely to stay low three times believing leader, but generally care for them as people make employees 2.3 times more likely to stay.

00:27:33:5 - 00:28:05:4
Unknown
So if that research is there back in this up. Then next episode, we're going to dive into these what you call these five practices and really get into that. And listeners are going to want to be with us for that. But can you just let us know then, Dan, you've mentioned exercise. What are those five practices again? You know, based on a body of research, what are those five practices that we think will help?

00:28:05:5 - 00:28:28:6
Unknown
Yeah, the first one, they're not in any particular order, but the first one we talk about is a practice of gratitude. And I'll be honest with you, that's one of the fluffy ones for me. Or was Fluffy for me until I really dug into the research. You I am surprised how many people already have a practice of gratitude and how impactful it is.

00:28:28:6 - 00:28:51:8
Unknown
And how simple can that be? Is that receiving gratitude or delivering it? Being in a place of recognize, seeing gratitude and feeling gratitude and certainly expressing it. But it's a sense in both of those is the answer to your question, kind of both of those. And so an active practice of gratitude, as simple as that. Right. You know, the most common one right now, three things you're grateful for.

00:28:51:9 - 00:29:15:3
Unknown
And again, so simple and yet so impactful as far as keeping people in the job and resilient. Second one exercise, of course, is one, and there are tons of research around how beneficial that is. And then mindfulness. Can I can I define that? Define that. Yeah. Mindfulness is one of those things that seems to mean a lot of different things, a lot different people.

00:29:15:4 - 00:29:46:2
Unknown
It's incredibly there's an incredible number of definitions for mindfulness, but thank you for recognizing that. Here's what I've got it down to, and I think it's specific to the work life that we tend to have. Mindfulness is doing one thing at a time. Just do one thing at a time. And I don't know how that hits you, but everybody, especially in child welfare, everybody multitask.

00:29:46:3 - 00:30:10:2
Unknown
And you know, you talk about science and everything. Is science real clear on multitasking. It does not work. You are less productive, you get less done. It's harmful to the brain and the job feels like you have to do that. And so we talk about simple practices of mindful as both at home and at work. Then the next one is acts of kindness.

00:30:10:2 - 00:30:29:6
Unknown
And I can think about that and when I talk about acts of kindness, this is one that people jump all over. They, you know, because it feels good to you, feels good to the receiver. Actually, the research says it has more benefit for the giver of an act of kindness than the receiver. Very clear how cool. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:29:8 - 00:30:52:2
Unknown
And it spreads. You know, I think it spreads. That's what's cool in an organization. If people buy into these practices and start and they start becoming habits, it really does spread. You know, it's that old story about you go to you go to Starbucks in line and you come up there, you place your order and you say, the car ahead of you paid for, paid for you.

00:30:52:3 - 00:31:20:1
Unknown
And so the next thing you do is pay for the person behind you. I've had people say I've had people say they've been they they went back to that place and it lasted for 75 cars. Wow. That's spreading. And so acts of kindness. Then again, we have an opportunity all day long to do that. And then social connection, you know, there's an epidemic of disconnection, epidemic of loneliness in our especially United States, but elsewhere, too.

00:31:20:2 - 00:31:42:6
Unknown
And then the pandemic, of course, had a big influence on that. And the fact that we, you know, we don't work together in a building for the most part anymore and not too many of us. And so we had to be very, very conscious and focused on keeping that social connection, because it does everything, does it somewhat it impacts us in such a huge way.

00:31:42:7 - 00:32:20:4
Unknown
We're social creatures, aren't we? We have we have to have connection. If we don't, we get sick, we get physically sick. So those are the five practices that in how to be. How simple could they be? Yes. Gratitude, exercise, mindfulness, acts of kindness, deepening social connections. And I'm struck by and in your spirit of keeping them simple and achievable, these are things that all of us do in some ways occasionally, and maybe if we could do them more.

00:32:20:5 - 00:32:50:8
Unknown
So we're going to get into all of that with our next episode. Thank you, Dan Cromer, for opening this up today. And I'm through I, I feel we have a few we have to do this. I feel it's our responsibility to do this. If somebody wants to come into child welfare and do that kind of very hard work, it's our responsibility to provide them an environment that supports their well-being, their resilience.

00:32:50:9 - 00:33:16:0
Unknown
So let's meet again next month and keep this rolling. I that love it. Thank you. So to our listeners, join us again then each month for the series with Dan our next conversations we just said is going to dive right in to what are those five practices simple achievable things that you can actually implement and incorporate into your work and into your workplace.

00:33:16:0 - 00:33:23:9
Unknown
Join us each month. We look forward to it. This has been radio Kempe.

00:33:23:9 - 00:33:40:5
Unknown
Thank you for listening to Radio Kempe. Stay connected by visiting our Web site at Kemp Center dot org and follow us on social media.